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Post by SRwillie on Dec 2, 2006 21:34:29 GMT -5
Hey Gary, My two stock still in package OEM head gaskets measure 89mm. Try laying yours on both the cylinder and head surfaces and make sure the gasket fits as close to the diameter of both as possible. You don't want gasket material hanging over in the combustion chamber.
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 2, 2006 22:44:03 GMT -5
Thanks SRwillie... it was 89mm, and it worked out. Things I've learned today... 1) Getting the ring gaps right are a BIIIAAAATTTCCCHH!!!  2) Getting the cylinder back over the piston, while trying to compress the rings, and keeping the gaps from working around into the wrong position, and not damaging the piston... another BIIIAAATTCCCHHHH!! Other than that, mostly smooth sailing, but a long-arse day. I didn't get the engine back in the frame. Still have to set the valve gaps. Then back in she goes, to see what I've mucked up. ;D Gary Hopwheels |
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Post by SRwillie on Dec 3, 2006 12:47:58 GMT -5
Gary, sent PM to you.
Willie
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 3, 2006 22:28:12 GMT -5
NOT EVEN CLOSE. I followed the Clymer's to the letter, checked before putting the engine in the frame that the motor turned over and sounded like it should (it did), tried to kick 'er over and it's a no go. The thing feels so tight, it won't even kick. Like the cylinder is seizing in the barrel. Yet I could turn it by hand with the flywheel when it was out of the frame? Not sure what to check. It's back to the drawing board... Just couldn't let it go tonight. Went back out to the garage  . I had set the cam chain adjuster WAY too tight for starters. Then, I took off the flywheel cover and set the T on the case mark, the kick indicator isn't showing. Not after turning it 360° either. So I eased the flywheel around until I could see the indicator and it's not even close. I swear I had the piston TDC, when I put the cam chain sprocket on with the mark at 9 o'clock, and the pin at 12 o'clock, like the manual indicates. Is this a complete tear down? Any saving it as is? |
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Post by StewRoss on Dec 4, 2006 4:44:43 GMT -5
Hi Gary, Re-do your cam timing, I'd say it's way out (180 degrees?)...the immovable piston might be due to a valve hitting the crown. Check thru the plug hole. One small point is that it's good to use a large diameter screw hose clamp to hold the rings together, do it up just tight enough to pull the rings in... then it should slide in easily...use plenty of oil...then simply unscrew it when the rings are in and remove it...bored cylinders have lees of a lead-in than normal...you can also damage the oil retainer rings if you're a little rough...I know you wouldn't do this of course...but I may have over the years...ahem...have you checked the ring end gap as correct before placing then onto the piston...all fun stuff... Enjoy... SR  |
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 4, 2006 10:20:28 GMT -5
Thanks Stew. Timing a bike is my Everest apparently (now all 3 of my bikes are out). I think I know the answer, but is there a way to do this without pulling the motor? I was pretty ginger with the piston going into the sleeve, hopefully I didn't damage anything.
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Post by StewRoss on Dec 5, 2006 1:13:00 GMT -5
Hi Gary, Well not really. It's a pain I know...the DCM is a good thing in that regard...head and barrel off in the frame. You'll probably need to take off the cam cover to re-do it all. I'll send you the drawing from the manual in case you don't have it. You'll need to remove the clutch side cover as well. Did you look through the plug hole to see if the valves are hitting? SR  |
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 8, 2006 23:00:54 GMT -5
UPDATE: So today... out came the engine AGAIN, with much swearing and and  and ...  I opened her up and made sure that when the gears looked like this...  The cam sprocket and pin looked like this... (I added a dot of yellow model paint to spy it more easily)...  And then the long process of putting her back together. Almost tried starting it with no oil  Put the proper amount of erl in adjusted the compression lever, kicked her around till I saw the indicator and... SHE FIRED UP!!!!!!! ;D It was exactly what you said Stew, and I followed the diagram you emailed (I have that diagram in my manual, I just overlooked the bottom of the illustration showing the critical alignment of the little "T" indicator. Anyway, have some fine adjustment on the timing I think, double-check the valve clearances, check for oil leaks, but she RUNS!!!!! THANKS everyone for all of your input and support. Now after the holidays I'm going to yank out El Bastardo's engine and check the very same thing... ;D |
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Post by milkman on Dec 9, 2006 0:00:40 GMT -5
Well done mate, you gotta be satisfied, as much of a bugger it was along the way.
You'll have to summarise you actions for us novice builders so we can learn from it (which is pretty much what this forum is I guess).
Good luck with El Bastardo...............
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 9, 2006 1:12:05 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll try and summarize tomorrow. BTW... is there a specific break in regimen for a new top end? Can't find info on that in the manual...
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Post by SRwillie on Dec 9, 2006 9:00:35 GMT -5
Great Job Gary! Largely depends on how the piston clearance was set up. For top end break-in, just keep the revs varied. No big loads or lugging the engine. Run up to 4,500 or so and let the bike slow with closed throttle. Run the revs up and down while riding. A couple hundred miles and you should be good to go. If it was set up (clearance), I would do at least 500 miles before you really get after it. You'll want to check the valve clearances after a couple of heat/ cool cycles.
Willie
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Post by hopwheels on Dec 9, 2006 14:00:43 GMT -5
Thanks Willie: I set the ring gaps as per the manual for second over piston size that I installed (.50mm I think the gaps were). I slightly rounded over the ring edges where I filed them down as well. I'm in need of a timing light to dial her in. Would one like this work: www.autotoolexpress.com/ate-esi130.htmlHad a minor oil leak around the oil supply line this morning. I installed a double line I got from an eBay seller in Germany, and the crush washers for the intake side weren't the right fit. Replaced them with copper and it's good to go. Not observing any leaks in the head itself as of yet. Two warm up to 120° F sessions so far. Set the cam chain tensioner properly as well. As far as a quick recap as to what I did, here goes: New parts:Second over Wiseco piston (probabaly could have gone with stock size or first over as well) Top end gasket, o-rings and seals kit OEM valves, springs, rockers (originals were serviceable, but I wanted new  ) Cam chain Service work done by shops:Bead blasted rocker cover, head, and valve covers Cylinder bored and honed to fit new piston (shop followed Wiseco's instruction sheet for tolerances) Work I did (which follows the Clymers manual, and advice form you guys ;D ):Steam cleaned rocker cover, head and cylinder after bead blasting Yanked motor (this is a time-consuming and many-stepped process, REQUIRING the manual imho) Disassembled cylinder head assembly Reassembled with new parts, etc. (paying close attention to ring gaps, torque specs, etc.) Re-installed in bike Tried to fire her up and was revealed here, that i got the timing wrong Yanked motor again Disassembled cylinder head assembly Reassembled making sure to follow the prescribed timing mark illustration Re-installed in bike Hit go button... Now, this would have all gone much more quickly, but as I've mentioned in a previous post somewhere on this site, I am a complete freak, anal-retentive, fastidious, nut and bolt polisher. Every part, and the area of the frame surrounding the motor, were cleaned of 20-plus-year-old filth, and anything that could be brought back to a shine, was. I even polished the side covers to a mirror shine. Hopefully I won't have to go through that again anytime soon! It has made it easier to spot any leaks that may arrise, since the engine is so clean. ;D And in the famous word of Porky Pig, th-th-the that's all folks! Gary Hopwheels |
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Post by SRwillie on Dec 9, 2006 19:21:40 GMT -5
I am a complete freak, anal-retentive, festidious, nut and bolt polisher. Every part, and the area of the frame surrounding the motor, was cleaned of 20-plus-year-old filth, and anything that could be brought back to a shine, was. I even polished the side covers to a mirror shine. Hopefully I won't have to go through that again anytime soon! It has made it easier to spot any leaks that may arrise, since the engine is so clean. Nothing wrong with this Gary! Always got crap for having the cleanest race bikes! Never had the problems that others had. They threw their hands up in suprise when they quit... Again, Nice Job! WHardin.photosite.com/ |
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Post by StewRoss on Dec 9, 2006 20:14:15 GMT -5
Hi, Well done Gary, now for the riding part... Nice pics Willie...I have some of those magazines here somewhere. I'd go for a ride myself today but it's too darn hot...Summer is going to be warm this year. Already big fires all over the place. SR |
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Post by SRwillie on Dec 9, 2006 22:28:37 GMT -5
Thanks Stew, snowing here! The R1100S and Wee Strom are tucked away in the shop and I've been trying to re-assemble the '78 SR I'm restoring. Hope the fires are not to bad...
Willie
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. I had set the cam chain adjuster WAY too tight for starters. Then, I took off the flywheel cover and set the T on the case mark, the kick indicator isn't showing. Not after turning it 360° either. So I eased the flywheel around until I could see the indicator and it's not even close. I swear I had the piston TDC, when I put the cam chain sprocket on with the mark at 9 o'clock, and the pin at 12 o'clock, like the manual indicates. Is this a complete tear down? Any saving it as is?
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