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Post by miker on Nov 21, 2008 10:07:53 GMT -5
Got my spoke back wheel ready... got a drum swingarm... got all cool polished stuff... all I have to do is take out ONE DANG BOLT and I can get with it.
Bastard is stuck like it's welded. I pounded on the end of the pivot bolt with a sledge, just deformed the end without moving it a mm.
Since I don't need to save the old swingarm, what's my easiest way out here? I'm working in an apartment bedrom so I don't think plasma cutter is the answer. Appreciate any ideas.
miker
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Post by Just Plain Bill on Nov 21, 2008 11:09:35 GMT -5
Your best bet would be a penetrating oil such as Kroil (designed for just that purpose) and heat from a propane torch or electric paint stripping gun. Before beating on it, use a breaker bar on the good remaining nut to turn the pivot bolt and free it up inside the housing.
If your swingarm already has a grease fitting, remove it and flood the cavity with Kroil. If it doesn't have a fitting, drill a hole in the swing arm.
Then beat on it with that sledge. Incidentally, it's usually best to leave the nut on the bolt you're going to beat on. Then use a wood block or brass drift between the nut and sledge. Saves the threads and keeps the end from mushrooming over.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 21, 2008 11:41:35 GMT -5
I had the same problem with my pivot shaft. Put 2000 lbs of pressure on it with a hydraulic press after soaking in penetrating oil overnight.....didn't budge it. Ended up using an electric Quickie Saw and cut both ends of the shaft between the swing arm and the frame. Last resort, but it was the only way.
Hope you can achieve removal without such a dramatic measure.
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Post by solo2racr on Nov 21, 2008 12:12:25 GMT -5
I don't think a propane torch or heat gun will get hot enough. The bulk of the heat will dissipate before it gets to where it is wanted. If you want to go the heat route, try a acetylene torch w/ a rose bud end. You will have to get the swingarm hot enough to soften the plastic bushings inside. But, the issue is probably where the steel collars meet the pivot bolt.
One other way I have had luck with is to drill out the bolt. You will have to drill out deep enough to get past the inside of the frame. If you should end up a bit off center, a Dremel tool can be used to get the rest. This is where some time spent finding the center is well spent.
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Post by miker on Nov 21, 2008 13:06:05 GMT -5
Solo2racr, I thought of drilling... might lathe/thread something to act as a drill guide.
Soonerfan... this Quickie Saw may be the answer, I can disassemble as much as possible and just cut the swingarm in half. Don't want to mess up the frame. So, what is a Quickie Saw? Rentable?
I've written off heat as I agree it won't get in where needed.
Thanks all.
miker
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krex
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by krex on Nov 21, 2008 14:56:45 GMT -5
Greetings! As luck would have it, I'm finding myself up against the exact same challenge...  A friend suggested laying the bike first on one side, then the other, for hours or days, as needed -- in order to allow copious amounts of penetrating lube to migrate in -- followed by applying an air hammer, via an appropriately sized (dull) drift. Apparently the vibration is more effective than hammer blows...  |
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 21, 2008 16:36:17 GMT -5
Miker:
A "Quickie Saw" is a slang term here in the USA for an electric reciprocating saw, hand held, either corded or portable, that uses a variety of blades. In this case, a hacksaw blade that is purpose-made for that saw. Yes, they are rentable. Get several blades...the bolt is very hard steel. My bike was down to the frame and the arm when we cut the bolt on both sides of the swing arm. Did not damage the frame or the arm when we did the deed, but the nylon rings were destroyed and you might as well get new nuts along with the new bolt. Have a friend over to hold down the assembly, because it will vibrate from the saw. Squirt a little water on the area occasionally to cool it down. Be patient....it will take some time and some down force on the saw to get through that hard metal.
Believe me....if 2000lbs of hydraulic pressure for 24 hours on that bolt did not budge it, gallons of penetrating oil and a giant air hammer will not do the deed.
Good luck...it will come away!
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Post by solo2racr on Nov 21, 2008 17:23:35 GMT -5
While I'm sure Soonerfan's method is faster than mine, I like the fact that the swingarm is still intact with my method. I guess it just depends on whether you need to reuse the swingarm or not.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 21, 2008 19:06:46 GMT -5
You won't damage the swing arm itself......I still have mine, and had it powder coated. But yes, sawing through the pivot bolt in 2 places does destroy the pivot bolt. Not a cheap piece to replace, either. Ken (soloracer) is more surgical than I am in the approach....but I intended to sandblast all painted frame parts and powdercoat anyway. I figured that if that bolt was as bad on the outside as it was, it had to be pathetic on the inside.....and it was.
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THUMPS
Junior Member
THUMPS, ridden by Dave
Posts: 92
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Post by THUMPS on Nov 21, 2008 19:48:02 GMT -5
Mine had a lot of side play. I could feel it steer the bike when using the throttle. Ok. I loosen the bolts, try tapping on a block of wood no go. Use a sledge on the block of wood, no go. Heat with a heat gun and the above slamming, no go.
I have to rethink this. Decide to tighten the bolts down. Until it took the play out. Problem solved at least for a while. I don't like the sounds of this, why do the swingarm pivot bolts seize up?
Solo2racr, don't these bikes have needle bearings in the swingarm pivots?
Thanks
Dave
PS We're lookin for whitetail this week at the farm. Weather is 15DF at night and 40 during day. No good biking.
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krex
New Member
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Post by krex on Nov 21, 2008 20:55:08 GMT -5
How does one go about applying 2000 lbs. of force to the swingarm pivot bolt with a hydraulic press, without damaging the frame?  Vibration can sometimes loosen what steady pressure might not... (Yes, there are needle bearings in there -- at least on my '79 model.)  |
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Post by solo2racr on Nov 21, 2008 21:19:42 GMT -5
I guess you had a bit of a gap (between the frame and the swingarm) for the blade to go down into, Paul (Soonerfan). I was thinking that if the endcaps have the right shims in them, then there wouldn't be any gap to speak of to keep the blade from cutting anything other than the pivot bolt. If there is a gap there, it will stress the frame when the pivot bolt is tightened.
Stock, the SR came with a "plastic" bushing with a hardened steel bushing inside that contacts the pivot bolt. The steel bushing is what freezes on the pivot bolt and makes it difficult to remove. Remember when ones goes back together, grease is your friend.
You can get needle bearing kits for the SR and is definitely the way to go.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 22, 2008 8:52:14 GMT -5
Krex:
The hydraulic press was a plunger that directly pushed on that bolt. We had the frame in a jig that Charlie has. We tried the oil and hammer approach first. Yes, there was just enough space to get that sawblade in......cut one of the bushings to do it on one side as I recall. My SR was not well taken care of. It had not run for several years and it looked as if it had been used as a dirt bike before Charlie took it in. The swing arm pivot bolt needs lubrication at regular intervals. I put one of Trouthunter's aluminum swingarms on and we put a grease zerk on the carrier and one in each end of the unit he threaded for this lubrication purpose.
My stock unit had no zerk.....either it was removed or fell out....but it was bone dry.
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krex
New Member
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Post by krex on Nov 22, 2008 12:11:18 GMT -5
Frame jig -- makes sense to me now. Interesting... I know the RD swingarm had the plastic bushing, but looking up the SR parts fiche shows the needle bearing setup... now I'm wondering what's stock/correct for what year(s), (or not)...? |
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Post by solo2racr on Nov 22, 2008 13:17:46 GMT -5
Interesting... I know the RD swingarm had the plastic bushing, but looking up the SR parts fiche shows the needle bearing setup... now I'm wondering what's stock/correct for what year(s), (or not)...? It may depend on the year model. Yamaha was big on the plastic bushings for years. I can't say for sure about my '78SR but I do know my '75 RD350, '77 TT500, & my '88 FZ600 all came with plastic bushings. When I did my frame swap, I used a different swingarm as well. Didn't have the need to remove the swingarm from my SR. |
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