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Post by joneill4 on Apr 2, 2008 7:00:38 GMT -5
Fired up the SR last night for the first time this year. Had some gremlins to fix from last season. I needed to weld up my exhaust, and I was smart enough to disconnect my battery before welding. Unfortunately, I was not smart enough to reconnect my battery before starting it up again. I had lights for about 30 seconds, but now I don't. The regulator/rectifier was pretty hot to the touch. Please, dear god, tell me I fried the regulator/rectifier and not the lighting coil.
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Post by StewRoss on Apr 2, 2008 23:44:46 GMT -5
You have probably just blown the globe through too many ergs... The bike should be fine. SR  |
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 3, 2008 6:46:06 GMT -5
I don't think its the bulb, because I lost all bulbs at the same time. Even the neutral light.
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Post by colinjay on Apr 3, 2008 16:40:18 GMT -5
I have been trying to workout how the SR regulator/rectifier actually works for a while, and I think that they need to have 12VDC feed to the rectifier/regulator from the battery to actually turn the unit on so it will regulate the voltage, (a lot of 1970's Hondas have similar units). Without this 12VDC battery input they will not regulate and will therefore blow bulbs if the engine is rev'ed. I would replace a couple of bulbs and give it another trye with the battery connected, it might just be ok.
CJ
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Post by stevec5000 on Apr 3, 2008 20:24:30 GMT -5
I have been trying to workout how the SR regulator/rectifier actually works for a while, and I think that they need to have 12VDC feed to the rectifier/regulator from the battery to actually turn the unit on so it will regulate the voltage, (a lot of 1970's Hondas have similar units). Without this 12VDC battery input they will not regulate and will therefore blow bulbs if the engine is rev'ed. I would replace a couple of bulbs and give it another trye with the battery connected, it might just be ok. CJ No, it will work without a battery, I've ran mine like that a few times, the lights flicker but it doesn't hurt anything. You can even install a big capacitor in place of the battery to eliminate the battery and prevent the flickering. The more likely problem is bad connections because the 30 year old connectors are corroded or the regulator may have burned out if you had a short somewhere since there aren't any fuses except one going to the battery.. |
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 11, 2008 7:09:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that I did indeed blow the rectifier. There is power going in, but not coming out. There is no continuity where the manual says there should be. It gets hot pretty quickly also. Has anyone found a decent alternative to the stock rectfier/regulator?
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Post by stevec5000 on Apr 11, 2008 10:24:21 GMT -5
If the regulator gets hot you must have a short in the wiring somewhere unless it's shorted internally. If you connect a freshly charged 12 volt battery will the lights all work normally? If they do then you need to stop by a wrecking yard and pick up another regulator. BTW, it won't work if the contacts in the connectors are badly corroded so you may need to do some cleaning and polishing even on a new one or even replace the connectors.
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 18, 2008 6:21:39 GMT -5
Alright Colin and Steve, please forgive me for doubting your wisdom. Two Ebay rectifiers later, I still have no lights. I did some multi meter measurements. When measuring across the battery terminals I had 12 volts. Switch the ignition on and it would drop to less than one volt in seconds. Hmmmm. I got to thinking that right before I lost my lights, I put in a new head light. I pulled the head light, but there wasn't the super-obvious arcing wire that I was hoping to find. So out of desperation, I started digging though the tangled mess of wires, and, low and behold, I got burned! It was the brown wire that goes from the ignition switch to the rectifier. So, I started to undo the wiring harness (that's not the most pleasant job), and decided to try to bypass the brown wire with a jumper just to check it. It did work in eliminating the the short to the battery. I am now charging when the motor is running, but I still have no lights. Then I found that I had continuity between all of my lighting system's positive wires and the ground. That's where I left off. I'm guessing that my next step is to cut open the wiring harness. After the huge slice of humble pie that I ate, I will gladly take any advice on tracking this down. Sorry about writing this book, but I've been busy. Did I mention that I hate electrical problems?
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Post by stevec5000 on Apr 18, 2008 8:56:12 GMT -5
If you turn on the ign. switch and the battery voltage drops to 1 volt and the wires get hot you have a short somewhere! Get busy with the ohmmeter and find that short. Don't try jumping with bigger wires or you might start a fire unless the battery goes dead first.
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 18, 2008 10:04:44 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I disconnected the brown wire, and used a decent sized jumper. I also know that you were correct in your original hypothesis that I had a short. My current question ( no pun intended) is if I have continuity everywhere, how do you go about figuring where it is? Or, do I open up the wire harness and look for a meltdown/weardown area where things are shorting? I'm guessing the latter, but I'm hoping for an easy trick. Thanks again.
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Post by davedunsboro on Apr 19, 2008 7:14:32 GMT -5
When you are trying to find an electrical fault , try using the elimination method . Take off covers,the headlight,seat &tank ,disconnect the rear lighting connectors under the seat & give it a test if it works you know its in the rear if not you know its not the rear . Sniff ,look & feel ! The wiring harness may be the problem too but look at the easy stuff first? It works for me & its paid for my bikes, cars & house for the last 30 years ! Cheers Dave.
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Post by stevec5000 on Apr 19, 2008 9:19:56 GMT -5
You have to trouble shoot a problem like that logically if you don't have the proper test equipment to find a short. Like davedunsboro said, use the elimination method. Disconnect everything one at a time until either you find the problem or have everything disconnected in which case the problem is in the wiring since that is all that's left.
You could also use a low-ohms ohmmeter to find shorts or an automotive short finder that uses a probe to find it if you have access to one but it probably isn't needed since the wiring harness is so small and doesn't go all over the place like it does in a car.
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 19, 2008 9:34:28 GMT -5
Well, once again you guys are correct, and I'm a F$*#ING MORON!!!! I had ALMOST everything disconnected. I had everything out of the headlight bucket. I had the coveing and all of the electrical tape off of 95% of the harness. While I was unwrapping around the small bits like the CDI and stator connections, I noticed that the tail light was still connected. Uh oh...please dear god don't let it be the the tail light after the huge mess that I have made. OH MY GOD IT'S THE F$#$ING TAIL LIGHT!!!!!
Did I mention that I hate electrical problems?
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Post by joneill4 on Apr 19, 2008 16:20:57 GMT -5
Whoa! I just had a really rude awakening. I just realized that not only do I not know where the short is, but I don't even know how to find a short. For the last two days, I've been going on the assumption that if the positive wire shows continuity to ground it must be shorting. What I just figured out the very very hard way is that the bulbs connect positive wires to ground wires. DUH!! Okay, I have a really nice multimeter on loan until Monday. Could someone please tell me a fool-proof way to find a short? I have everything apart, so I have access to everything on the bike. I swear I'm not generally this stupid. I can, and do, fix everything that goes wrong with my cars, bikes and house. I just don't get the electrical thing. The sooner you guys help me, the sooner my wife will stop laughing at me.
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Post by stevec5000 on Apr 19, 2008 18:00:48 GMT -5
Well a short is a low resistance path to ground that shouldn't be there and will generally be even lower in resistance than anything else like a tail light bulb. You can usually find it with an ohmmeter on the lowest ohm scale as long as there is no voltage applied to the circuits anywhere. While a tail light bulb might measure 2.5 ohms for the running light and 1/2 ohm for the brake light the short might be even lower than 1/2 ohm in an automotive setting. There will be some resistance in the wires too such as 1-2 ohms from end to end so with everything disconnected you can try tracing each wire until you find one with a low resistance to ground. Then check it at different points until you find the lowest resistance to ground and you will be near the short. Another way to find a short is by the voltage drop method using a voltmeter. With full battery voltage applied to all the circuits check all around with the voltmeter
until you find where the voltage is lowest and that will be near the short since it will usually be the biggest load that draws the most current (except for the headlight) causing the most voltage drop in the wires.
Another method I have heard of but I don't recommend is the excessive current method. If you have the short narrowed down to just one circuit but can't find it you can keep applying higher voltage and current until it clears the short by burning it out. This will solve the problem if it doesn't start a fire first.
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