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Post by mattb on Oct 2, 2007 2:39:28 GMT -5
After a few hours in the hot sun, trying to fix my unfixable indicator problem  I changed my oil, and in my weary distraction I put too much pressure on the oil plug-bolt in the frame, and snapped the head off  What's the best way to deal with that? - buy a new part, and get a mechanic to take the old bolt out when I get the engine seen to (in a month or two's time)? Or will I need to go with a whole new bigger bolt? It's only weeping a tiny bit of oil, after a run of a couple of kms, so I should be fine in the meantime. I'm guessing that the part is number 42 from here - do others agree. www.hopwheels.com/downloads/1978SR500.pdfMatt |
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Post by milkman on Oct 2, 2007 6:14:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't like an uncapped bolt in my frame, just for peace of mind.
You know if it was to let loose, or vibe its way in further, that it will do it when your thumping along at pace, and starts dropping oil on you.
I'd be trying to carefully drill it out, being careful not to damage the thread in the frame
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Post by wotavidone on Oct 2, 2007 6:27:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't like to trust it either. I'd be trying to get it out and replace it. At least its faily accessible to work on. They are a scary thing.
When I gave my XT an oil change the other day, I put the tension wrench on it, just to get an idea of what the recommended tension feels like, because I don't want it to come undone either. At the recommended tension, I could feel the bolt just wasn't pulling up. I had this horrible feeling something was giving. I reckon I could have kept turning it until something snapped or stripped. When I pulled it out for a look, the bolt was fine, which suggests to me if anything was giving, it was the thread in the frame. Scary. At least there is enough meat there to drill and retap for a helicoil or a larger bolt.
I have decided that I will do it up firmish with an ordinary, shortish ring spanner. I tried this and found that I got it to between 10 and 15 foot pounds, which is near enough. The book says 20 foot pounds which was starting to strip the frame I reckon.
Its hard to overcome the psychological need to get that sucker so tight it NEVER comes undone, though.
Mick
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Post by wotavidone on Oct 2, 2007 6:34:08 GMT -5
On the otherhand, maybe its OK to risk it.
The oil filter on my mate's Buell screwed right of, dumping oil all over his back tyre at speed on a twisty road, and he survived the experience. Except it was very inconvenient.
The problem was, the Buells have a very small short screw on oil filter, but there is a commonly available car engine filter, don't ask me which one!, that screws on in place of the original.
Our theory is the full size filter, which no doubt someone thought should give a better service life, is hanging in space just tied to a very vibrating engine by one end, and the extra length gave it the leverage to work loose. Or maybe some fool did not tighten it properly.
Mick
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Post by fenz on Oct 2, 2007 6:34:58 GMT -5
You can use a device called an eezy out which acts a bit like a threaded tap but works in reverse.
You drill a hole into the broken bolt and then screw the eezy out into this hole in a anti clockwise direction as this happens it bights into the broken bolt and it comes undone.
These are very comon in the engineering trade and any good mechanic/workshop should have a set.
But i agree with milkman i would not risk ridding it the way it is because the vibrations from the motor may make it fall out and you dont want to go there.....
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Post by mattb on Oct 2, 2007 8:16:46 GMT -5
One way to deal with the risk of it unscrewing, is simply to place something there to it to stop it from being able to screw out. Even some gaffa should do the job (or a piece of plastic taped on, though then it would be hard to check that it's not screwing inwards). It might be some weeks for a replacement part to come from Japan, anybody know if the thread of this bolt would match some standard thread of a cheapo bolt which I can use in the meantime (or permanently)?
Easy Out sounds like the go. I shame the bolt is sunk within the hole, rather than extending out of it, in which case I could hax-saw enough to screw-driver it out. Must admit - and in this thread I'm really giving away what a proud and stubborn bodger I am - I'm tempted to glue something to it, an allen key, or the head of the bolt, and try to unsrew it that way (it goes in and out nice and easy).
It's my only transport, so it's a bit impossible to keep off it.
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Post by miker on Oct 2, 2007 9:12:25 GMT -5
1. If it's going to fall out (or in!) by itself, not a problem as long as you know and stop right there. In fact, that fixes the problem for you. Good idea to put gaff over it tho. 2. If it turns easily, sometimes a tiny punch used sideways can keep turning it enough to get it out. Or use a tiny chisel to make enough of a slot to screwdrive it. 3. If there's enough hole available, get a friend with a lathe to drill down the center of a matching bolt and use it as a drill guide. 4. I can't picture how far it is up there right now, but if you took out the bottom plug some kind of lengthy long-nose pliers might let you turn the stub until it falls inside? Grrr, I hate broken bolts... miker |
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Post by curly001 on Oct 2, 2007 17:11:51 GMT -5
Matt,
If you don't feel confident doing it, there are guys that will come to you and take it out. In sydney they charge $135 to drill out and helicoil for new bolt. If they don't have to helicoil it's even cheaper. The only thing is they prefer you don't touch it. They sometimes use some of the methods described by the others.
Look up helicoils in melbourne.
Curly
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Post by fenz on Oct 2, 2007 21:41:36 GMT -5
Cant remember off the top of my head what bolt size is either M8 or M10 i suspect.
Once it comes out a high tensile bolt and a copper washer should cure your trouble.
I have used a socket head cap screw and copper washer before and no leaks...
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Post by colinjay on Oct 3, 2007 1:26:15 GMT -5
Hi,
The drain bolt in the frame downtube is M8 x 1.25 (ie a std 8mm bolt). I don't know why Yamaha used a special bolt with a 10mm hex on, apart making it so you can't tighten it up to tight! I use a 8mm shoulder-head bolt with a copper washer and have no leaks.
CJ
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Post by frankyb on Oct 3, 2007 2:35:11 GMT -5
Hi guys, use an 8mm allen head bolt, teflon thread tape and a copper crush washer. Cross drill the allen head with a 2mm bit and the same on the bottom of the down tube, and lockwire it down. All you guys with race and track day bikes should have done this already, as i think that its a requirement in the build regs. Cheers Franky b.
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Post by curly001 on Oct 3, 2007 5:55:30 GMT -5
Or a bit of duct tape around the plug and frame as seemed to be the norm at Oran Park on sunday.
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Post by wizz954 on Oct 3, 2007 7:13:12 GMT -5
no way!!!!
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Post by mattb on Oct 3, 2007 10:58:14 GMT -5
Much obliged fellas!
The broken bolt turned out to be easy to remove. There was a slightly raised and sharp piece in the surface of the break, and I got a small punch and used this to slowly manipulate the bolt and turn it, until I could get the pincers in there.
Next I wheeled the bike down to the local hardware store and got me an 8mm allen head bolt and she slipped in fine. 20mm long was the least I could find, so it's off to the specialty shops tomorrow, but problem fixed. Drilling it and wiring it sounds like a good idea too.
Matt
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Post by fenz on Oct 3, 2007 18:15:46 GMT -5
Not a big fan of teflon tape near oil.It tends to shred and finds it way to spots where you dont want it(in the oil).
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I changed my oil, and in my weary distraction I put too much pressure on the oil plug-bolt in the frame, and snapped the head off 
