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Post by soonerfan on Nov 6, 2008 19:43:35 GMT -5
My project '80 G model, since up and running recently, has never been easy to start. Recently, it has worn my leg out. Oddly, I have felt some serious resistance to kick-start lever travel about half way down the stroke on occasion....but this is after repeated attempts. What is that all about? I have checked the spark plug "flame" by grounding it against the head....and it is yellow with a little blue. Tells me it is weak.....right? A friend tells me that the OEM CDI modules will all ultimately fail...and mine is original. Expect I'll get one from the fella in New Zealand that produces an improved unit. Any thoughts from more experienced members on these two subjects....resistance during kick stroke and spark color?  |
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THUMPS
Junior Member
THUMPS, ridden by Dave
Posts: 92
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Post by THUMPS on Nov 6, 2008 21:45:01 GMT -5
Regarding the resistance: Are you using the compression release to push it over TDC before you kick it over?
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 7, 2008 14:55:16 GMT -5
Yes, I use the compression release. Didn't have this issue until we adjusted the valves, but I see no reason for that to change anything. Both were out of parameters a bit. The kick start lever just stops....I can then initiate the compression release and it will go all the way through the stroke and then I start over. Used to give it one kick. Then key on, full choke, release engaged, find TDC and go just past and kick. Sometimes it would pop. Next kick would sometimes, not always, fire it up. Now it's not even popping, which lead me to looking at the plug to see if there is adequate spark.
I have a HyperPak ordered from Mr. Gumm in NZ. If this doesn't fix my current dilemma, I expect I'll need the unit eventually.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 7, 2008 18:42:32 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Just remembered that my friend was adjusting my compression release cable....I'll check it. But the spark was very weak on that plug. Does the CDI unit slowly go out or is it either good or bad...like a light bulb for example? I don't think the voltage regulator has anything to do with this....lights are good, signals fine, horn strong....all without a battery. Anybody? |
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Post by chew652 on Nov 7, 2008 19:58:29 GMT -5
I would recheck the valve adjustment.
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Post by aero on Nov 8, 2008 5:47:36 GMT -5
The ignition system is basically a magneto, all be it an electronic one. Like all magnetos the slower it turns the less power it produces.
When kicking the engine over the generator is providing only about 20 volts to charge the capacitor. At the red line this is nearer 200. If you could see the spark then you'd agree it was very healthy.
If you are getting a spark its a good sign, even if it appears very weak when kicking the engine over. If the bike runs and pulls cleanly through out the rev range the CDi is definately OK.
Early ignition boxes tend to suffer a partial failure which sends the timing off. The engine will start, but won't pull and will over heat very quickly if this has occured. The part number suffex identifies the box. Later boxes tend to just expire.
Note the ignition is a totally seperate system from the one that charges the battery and runs the lights, the coils are in the same generator, but seperate from the others. Hence the engine will start and run with no battery.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 8, 2008 7:40:13 GMT -5
Thanks for enlightening me on the CDI, Aero. I suppose it is back to square one, now. At least I can eliminate that as a cause.
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Post by davedunsboro on Nov 8, 2008 8:48:17 GMT -5
One other thing I do when I'm going for a start(I find more benificial than the choke/enricher) is to put the fuel tap into prime first! If it doesn't fire within 2 kicks I shut off the choke & give it 2 more ,if that doesn't work I pull the plug & have a look usually its flooded so I dry it ,put it back with no choke & it usually starts(this is very rare that this happens) as soon as it starts warm it up & turn the tap back to normal. I just had 1 of my bikes running today that I hadn't started for 6 months & it started first kick .(I've just spent a packet on wire wheels & tyres etc) so I think it was showing its appreciation? Cheers Dave.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 8, 2008 9:12:43 GMT -5
Thanks Dave! Will put the indicator to Prime give it a rip. It has been in the Normal setting......maybe this will do the trick. It has been a frustrating experience....I'm hoping my stator isn't beginning to wheeze.
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Post by davedunsboro on Nov 9, 2008 22:49:12 GMT -5
The stators usually just go with no warning. Commonly caused by moisture getting inside the cover.You know your in trouble when you take out the bottom cover bolt & water dribbles out. The winding wire is so fine on the bigger coil that a little water & salt will eat it either on the join or where it changes direction ,especially with a bit of current running through it so don't worry it may never happen . How does it run when you get it going? Cheers Dave.
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 10, 2008 12:37:09 GMT -5
Last time I got it running, it was fine! I discovered that the spark plug Charlie stuck in there from the git-go was an "8". The owner's manual recommends a "6", so I swapped plugs. My engine buddy Tim is coming this afternoon to check the timing. He's owned several SR's and modded a handful of engines for others. Have had a fast idle since I installed a baffle in the short megaphone....guess it richened things up with some additional backpressure. We'll get it sorted out.
Upon reading some new posts from today, it seems I have expected too much from my little bike....seems they have a fickleness all their own when it comes to starting. Tim claims it is mostly inexperience on my part....he's probably right.
I expected that the bike should start on the third kick every time.......I'm learning.
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Post by wotavidone on Nov 10, 2008 16:07:19 GMT -5
Yellow spark with a hint of blue is probably a good spark at kick speeds.
Mine started 2nd kick last night after a 4 week "rest" in the shed. If I had not taken the choke off straight away it mat even have kept running!
Seriously though, a lot of it is technique. I have these little moments every now and then when one or the other of my bikes won't start straight away, and its always because I was slack on my technique. These really are very simple engines, and I reckon we tend to forget that, and come up with all sorts of rituals, but in the end, if you move the piston just over dead centre and then give it a full swing of the kickstarter so the engine goes through a full count of four strokes, it has to fire.
Mick
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 10, 2008 18:10:26 GMT -5
Update in case anybody is interested......
Spark has deteriorated to a feeble white even after swapping CDI modules. Pulled the cover off the stator and found lots of rust dust and some rust. Removed unit and Tim went home to blast it with walnut shells, and shine up the exterior. No wonder the beast wouldn't fire. A HyperPak is on the way from Mr. Gumm in NZ, but we'll see what the original CDI does after we reinstall the renewed stator. If proves to be good, will use it as a backup to the HyperPak module. Will also pick up a #7 spark plug.
Stay tuned!
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Post by davewfc603 on Nov 10, 2008 19:51:19 GMT -5
Hi Soonerfan, I've had plug problems 2 times, I too cleaned my stator. Does your plug get wet when your trying to start the bike? You have nice clean grounds, connections, simple but works, good luck Dave
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Post by soonerfan on Nov 10, 2008 20:28:42 GMT -5
I would venture a guess that it does get wet, since it doesn't have enough spark to fire. The #8 plug looked like it had encountered a rich condition. Yes, I seem to have clean connectors and grounds. Hoping that most of my woes are caused by the stator being 95% inoperable.....thanks for the good thoughts.
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