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Post by bigshingle on Oct 10, 2008 10:45:18 GMT -5
I rebuilt the top end, rebored, put in a new Wiseco piston and a new clutch and had almost no parts left over.
The bike started on the 3rd kick, died, started again after 10 more kicks, got oil pressure right away, and after the assembly lube burned off and the black smoke cleared, it runs like a sewing machine. (except for gas that's started dripping from the carb and will be taken care off today.)
All good so far, however...
I have two large washers left over and can't figure where they came from.
One is a stainless steel plate washer, the other is a standard washer with a blue finish. They are both nearly identical in size, 1 3/8" (35 mm) OD, with the standard washer slightly larger.
Both have the same ID and fit over both the clutch shaft and the kick-starter shaft and it seems they should go on these.
But they don't.
The parts diagrams from Yamaha don't show them. If I put either on the clutch shaft the clutch doesn't work. (The push-rod is too short when either washer is on the shaft.)
If I put either on the kick-starter, it doesn't work because when the side-cover is on the extra thickness binds the starter.
I've followed the parts diagrams exactly, taken the clutch apart several times to be sure, and both plate washers shown in the diagrams are in place and the new clutch works great.
The kick starter works great with out the left-over washers and the only plate washer shown in the diagram, (behind the oil seal) is in place.
I'm a firm believer in StewRoss' philosophy that anything unnecessary shouldn't be on the bike, and it runs great and everything works fine without these washers but...
I've been waking up in the night and wondering where they belong and what the consequences are going to be down the road.
Can anyone take a guess as to where they belong? I didn't split the case or take off any of the kick-starter parts except the starter itself.
Thanks
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Post by phoebeisis on Oct 11, 2008 10:40:11 GMT -5
There might be a washer on the cam tensioner adj, but it is a tough plastic rubber one looks a little blue, but it isn't steel- check the manual.My memory is vague on that.There is also one on the clutch adj "thing". These are ones you can get to.Maybe they are just from the engine mounting hardware?
Luck,
Charlie
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Post by bigshingle on Oct 11, 2008 13:00:20 GMT -5
Charlie, Thanks.
The cam tensioner seems to have gone back together right, and I didn't take out the clutch adjuster.
My best bet probably is to post a photo and see if anyone recognizes them. They look like new and are completely free of corrosion, so it seems like they've always been in an oil bath. That is, inside the engine, not outside in the elements.
All this comes of now having a nice shop with lots of benches for the first time in my life.
Not being in any hurry, I took the SR apart and put it back together in the course of a year and only worked on it when I was in the mood. In the days when I had to do repairs on the dinning room table things tended to get put back together faster — before you had a chance to forget how they came apart.
All along I was certain these washers came off the kick-starter shaft. But they sure as hell didn't.
Thanks again.
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Post by bigshingle on Oct 11, 2008 14:05:06 GMT -5
Here they are. If 100,000 miles from now the bike's still running fine, then I'll figure someone put them on the bench as a joke. If something comes apart because I left them off I'll let everyone know so they don't make the same mistake.  |
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Post by phoebeisis on Oct 11, 2008 17:03:07 GMT -5
Big single-you got me. On page 43 of my Haynes manual I see 3 washers that could fit the bill. 2 are described as Thrust plate washers, the other is the Bellville washer. Do you have 3 washers in your clutch assembly?
I remember that the clutch push rod on my 1980 SR -the rod with the funny spirals on the end- got kinda peened and shortened over time(probably because I screwed up the weird little adjustor). It became too short over time and I had to get a new one. No chance there was a bit of wear on either end?
Of course, if you have all 3 washers in there 2 thrust and one Belville, your extras aren't one of them.
Charlie
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Post by colinjay on Oct 11, 2008 17:15:31 GMT -5
I can't recall seeing the washer on the left in any of the engines I have had apart, however, the washer on the right does look like the washer from the kickstart shaft (item No. 23 in the parts exploded diagram). Do you have any end play / float in the kickstart shaft if you try to push it in and pull it out?
CJ
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Post by boanerges on Oct 12, 2008 9:57:00 GMT -5
The one on the left looks like an extra washer I have left behind also!  I believe the source of my extra shim/washer was next to the ball bearing behind the clutch basket. I believe this extra washer resulted from my complete engine build. During the build, I replaced all the transmission bearings. Turns out that if I compare the new ball bearing on the clutch shaft to the old, the old bearing needs this 3mm washer to bring the lateral face of the inner race flush with the outer race of the ball bearing. The new clutch shaft ball bearing faces are flush and did not need this. I checked the parts diagrams on bikebandit and yamaha and could not find any reference to a 3mm thick X 35 mm shim/washer. Sven posted a reply to my same question and felt that the newer SR's used this shim/washer, the parts diagrams I looked at only went up to '81 so I cant say for sure. So, it may be worth having a look at the ball bearing to see if there is a step between the face of the inner and outer races. Having said I all this -- I am still in the middle of my build and haven't fired ! Hope this helps. Bill-- |
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Post by bigshingle on Oct 13, 2008 12:59:28 GMT -5
Thanks guys. That gives me some more places to look.
I don't have much play on the starter shaft, but after reading Colinjay's post I drained the oil and pulled off the cover again and tried it with the thin washer on the starter shaft.
Once the cover's on, the starter can be moved, but only barely. It's way too tight. So I took the washer off again and the starter seems to work like it should.
Bill: Hmmm... Mine's an '81, but let me see.
I'm not going to put the oil back in right away. I'll leave the cover off, and think about this some more. It's going to be winter here before long anyway.
(A friend who just lost a lot of retirement savings noticed SR owners have it pretty good — they don't seem to have much to keep them awake at night except worrys about washers.)
Thanks again everybody.
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Post by boanerges on Oct 13, 2008 16:39:59 GMT -5
So, I did a little bit of homework and take back my words about the part not being in the parst catalogue. I think this is the part here. I was expecting it to go along with the clutch diagram but I think this is it in the transmission drawing. Looks like it is the 3mm shim/washer you described and is in the same location mine came from (Part #4 I believe) . www.cmsnl.com/products/washer-plate-3x0_90201252a4/When I first re-assembled the clutch I did try and put in the washer but the clutch pushrod wasn't able to travel far enough to move the clutch much. Thats when I surmised that my new tranny bearing must have been a different version with the help of Sven. Sven believes the newer bikes use the shim while older ones dont. Indeed, if you look at the fiche (eg on bikebandit) for the '78 SR500E it shows a different bearing and no shim. So somehow, my older bike likely ended up with a newer bearing in its life that I have now replaced with an older one  Bill-- |
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Post by bigshingle on Oct 14, 2008 21:17:06 GMT -5
Boanerges, thanks for the link.
I haven't been able to provide much info to go on, so all the thinking and suggestions are doubly appreciated.
There's a story in this, and down the road I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
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Post by caferacercarl on Oct 19, 2008 1:51:20 GMT -5
The new clutch roller bearing is single row and needs the extra washer on the clutch side next to the bearing to space it out to the same width as the earlier double row ball bearing, the spacers part number is 90201-252A4 and is readily available and about $9, there is a thrust shim on the other side of the bearing the same inside diametre but only .5mm thick, and its critical for good gearbox life, its 168-17428-01-05
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