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Post by FreakenI on Oct 8, 2008 15:37:26 GMT -5
Hi there. 2 days ago didn't know what a SR 500 was, yesterday I bought one (1978). I owned the bike 24 hours, already had the thing slide out from under me in autumn traffic today..... The exhaust suffered a dent as it landed on that side. I believe I snapped/cut a fuel line of some sort underneath, as fuel is pissing out the bottom as the motor runs...stops when engine is off (too wet to check now). From what I saw there are two maybe 5mm diameter hoses running down from the carby, going underneath and toward the rear of the bike ( ). I have to get on my hands and knees to even see the 'underneath' part (Im sure you've all been there). My Haynes shows no diagrams regarding fuel lines. Any hints/tips/advice anyone wants to share with me? Im hoping it is just to replace this (what looks like 'cut') hose. Also, I believe black smoke is now emitted from exhaust when I throttle her up, but owing to the 24 hours ownership, can't be certain whether that was there before or a result of the fall (Im quite sure she didn't blow black before)...any hints? Thanks in advance.
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Post by solo2racr on Oct 8, 2008 16:19:20 GMT -5
The line coming from the back of the petcock is for the vacuum to operate the petcock. The line coming from the bottom of the petcock is for fuel to the carb. This would be the one leaking. The other is just vacuum.
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 8, 2008 17:53:54 GMT -5
Thanks for that...it makes perfect sense to me. What doesn't make sense is why there are fuel lines so low to the ground and so far toward the rear of the bike. The snap/cut appears to have happened on lines way past the carburettor. I'm re-checking Haynes pg 71 fig 2.3 (carb assembly) and notice 'vent pipe' and 'overflow pipe'. Is the overflow pipe leading anywhere or just open?? Possible that the carb is damaged and squirting fuel out the overflow pipe for some mysterious reason?? I admit there may be some anomalies in my reporting....will get a fresh look in daylight tomorrow (minus rain).
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Post by G Man on Oct 8, 2008 18:10:55 GMT -5
As you likely know, the fuel petcock is vacuum operated and therefore only flows fuel to the carb while the bike is running, producing enough vacuum to open the fuel flow. Your bike may have been sitting sometime before you bought it? If so, the carb could be varnished or gummed up. The fuel you see leaking to the ground while the bike is running is likely to be a stuck inlet needle valve in the carb which is overfilling the float bowl and overflowing to the ground out the vent tube/ hose you see underneath.
My guess anyways...
G Man
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Post by solo2racr on Oct 8, 2008 19:24:54 GMT -5
I agree with Gary, Your second post sheds a bit more light on what you are experiencing. Also, both of the tubes that you are describing need to be open on the end. The vent to allow fuel into the float bowl and the overflow to keep the engine from getting filled instead.
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Post by solo2racr on Oct 8, 2008 19:25:37 GMT -5
Oh No!!.........I'm a Goblin now!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 9, 2008 11:16:43 GMT -5
More updates.....no Gman, the bike has been a daily driver, not sitting in storage. Im very certain there was no fuel pissing out when I inspected prior to purchase, so I can only conclude the fall I took somehow disrupted the carb unit. Today I had a good long look at it, and yes, fuel running out of overflow line when engine is running. Surprisingly, I got her started quite fast today(3d or 4th kick). I went for a long ride to the top of a hil and inspected her in the sun. HOWEVER, the nightmare began when I tried to start her again. 30 minutes of kicking later (thinking I had the knack) I gave up and decided to jump-start downhill. No go...I used a lot of permutations (1st, 2nd with decrompesser lever in, letting go of the decompresser AFTER dropping the clutch)...she would splutter a bit, fire very hesistantly until the back wheel locked. I had 5 km of 50 degree downhill to try this...I had AMPLE time to play with the kill switch (in case of dirt etc), the ignition barrel/key, choke settings etc, all while free-wheeling downhill. So, is this connected?? Has to be a 'maybe'. What are the chances that the inlet needle valve is stuck (BTW, what number is that on the Fig.2.3 Haynes carby diagram? 6?) AND something else is wrong (like the CDI unit or something else???). I know I need to be methodical and work with the process of elimination, but the bike is so d**n new to me!! The previous owner seemed very honest and trustworthy (I used to be a cab driver and can gauge people pretty fast), so I don't suspect he had a bag full of 'unwanted surprises' thrown in with this deal. Any ideas where to begin - short of what Im already doing, which is looking for a Yam mechanic!
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 10, 2008 4:37:00 GMT -5
Additionally, while waiting for some response here I have read up on all this carby talk...VM36 - 38 etc. Am I thinking to drastically if I am considering replacing the carby and/or stator?? I realise also this issue has diverted from fuel lines to carby issues....is this a no-no of some sort for this forum? Should I re-post elsewhere?
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Post by wotavidone on Oct 10, 2008 6:38:40 GMT -5
Dood, Welcome to the forum. First off, don't do anything drastic like change the stator. Lets just relax for a moment and think about this. Bike running good, you fell off, now bike running bad with black smoke and fuel running out of the overflows. Must be flooding the carb. Most likely cause, stuck needle or somehow the floats got stuck or bent when you fell off. Very unlikely anything else wrong. All the symptoms you descibe - difficult to start, fuel running out the overflow and black smoke point to this - an overly rich condition because the needle valve is not seating and shutting off the flow of fuel into the carb. Turn the fuel tap to prime. When fuel starts to run out of the overflow, give the float bowl a couple of sharp raps with the plastic handle of a decent size screwdriver. Very occaissionally, this will dislodge a stuck float. If the fuel running out of the overflow stops, you have success. If not, take the float bowl off. This can be achieved with a short screwdriver without removing the carb. Check the float is properly placed, in particular the pin it pivots on, and check the float valve/needle is actually in place. Maybe you came down hard enough to bounce everything around and actually dislodge it. Always do the simple stuff first. Mick
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 10, 2008 7:14:16 GMT -5
Thanks Mick (taking deeper breaths now). Thankyou for restating my bike issues (at least I know Im not confusing you all!). All you write makes good sense and I'll try them out first thing tomorrow, as well as a plug change (to be sure). But here's the novice in me again....I know it is all a matter of terminology, but Haynes doesn't mention a needle valve....is the (what you call) needle valve the (what Haynes calls) pivot pin or jet needle?? And when you say I don't need to remove the carby for this float bowl procedure, I assume I am unscrewing and removing the float bowl off the bottom?? Are there any seals to consider when doing this?? Pirie in Spring can be a beautiful thing...
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Post by G Man on Oct 10, 2008 7:25:27 GMT -5
Diverted from fuel lines to carb issues? It is a carb issue.
There is only one fuel line on your bike. It goes from the fuel petcock to the carb. That's it. You can imagine that on a gravity fed fuel delivery system that the engineers would not really divert fuel from the fuel system above and run it under the bikes engine and frame. You are simply looking at pieces of line that allow any lost fuel from the carb vent and or the float bowl drain to be safely expelled to the ground below and not on the hot engine or anywhere else important.
Now re-read Micks post and do what he says...
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 12, 2008 6:35:44 GMT -5
Got it! Had to take the float tank off and jiggle the float mechanism a little, put back together and that fixed it. Still wouldn't start though, but when I changed the plug I understood why...it was all wet and black. New plug and she starts fine now, though still running rich (black smoke). Going to have to read up on the fuel mixture settings. Thanks everyone.
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Post by wotavidone on Oct 12, 2008 16:55:48 GMT -5
Hmm. Managed to sort most of the problem by jiggling the float, etc. If its still blowing black smoke, although now running reasonably well and not leaking fuel out of the overflow pipes, one wonders whether the float is set too high. Quite conceivable, since it appears your carb has been upset by your unscheduled dismount. If you read your manual, you will see that there is quite a range of measurements that are acceptable for float height. Try setting the float a couple of millimetres lower. (This is a larger measurement, since you measure back to the carb body.) This may affect mixture enough to do the deal. BTW, in this instance, when we say needle, we mean the little needle and seat type valve arrangement that is closed off to stop fuel flow when the floats are high because the float bowl is full of fuel. The closer your float is set to the carb body, the "higher" it will be, and the higher will be the fuel level will be in the flaot bowl. This can enrichen the mixture. This is a little fiddly to get right, since there is a little spring loaded pin in the needle in my carb, so you have to judge carefully when you actually have the needle seated, but if I remember correctly the haynes manual is pretty clear on the how to. Anyway, it might not be the problem, but its realtively simple, and free if you do it yourself, so its worth the try. Mick
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Post by FreakenI on Oct 13, 2008 16:30:28 GMT -5
Thanks for that info Mick. Yeah, she's definitely burning rich. After I installed the new plug went for an 80 km highway run, checked the plug after and it was all dry and black/sooty. While removing the lower float assembly I also gave some twists to that (I think o2 screw??) that is mounted on the 'forward' side of the carb (has its own indent on the lower float assembly). But, I found this site www.siue.edu/~rsutton/SR/mikuni.htm elsewhere on the forum and it really looks very informative, as well as Haynes and what yo've just given me. Winter is around the corner and there is maybe 1 good week of riding left; have a workshop for the winter all lined up and plan to spend many days exploring her and tackling this fuel mixture business. Whether it is the rich mixture or the new plug or the improved kicking technique or the overall harmony in the relationship between me and her, she is firing up cold pretty much 1st pop, and I think you all know how good a feeling that is!!
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Post by wotavidone on Oct 13, 2008 22:45:58 GMT -5
ooh er, that be the low speed mixture adjustment. Yep, you definitely need to learn what you can about carb adjustments. Sounds like its getting better all the time though. Keep trying, you'll eventually get everything spot on, then you'll be starting first kick hot or cold, and winning beers from your mates when they can't start it at all. Mick
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