|
|
Post by milkman on Jul 1, 2008 6:18:35 GMT -5
Not meaning to be sacreligious on this forum (though Marlon menationed doing up a cx500 so I think I'm safe compared to that), but has anyone had any experience with teh old Honda thumpers?
Was just curious as to why Honda's 500 thumper, the offroad version (XL500?) never seemed to gain teh noteriety of the XT? At least in Australia anyway, maybe it was bigger elsewhere
It could be one of those odd motorcycle things where similar models do better in differnt markets etc?
I jsut notice that less Honda's seem to come up for sale here, and attract less value. Anyone owned one, or both?
|
|
|
|
Post by frankyb on Jul 1, 2008 7:20:53 GMT -5
Hi milko, from what ive seen at dirttrack meetings in the last twenty odd years, the xl 500 was not as robust as the xt and tt 500. Plain cam bearings (read no bearings) do not like to be hammered. Add to that a fairly ordinary frame and suspension, and a 23 inch front wheel, and they were showroom duds. A shame really, as most of these negatives were rectified by the mid 80s. On the other hand, yamaha went backwards with the xt550, and the motors lost their robust nature. I can only presume that the cant kill em reputation of the xt tt 500 is what makes them so popular today, so popular in fact, that an xt tt 500 only class is a support race on the program for the australian classic dirttrack champs in canberra later this year. Cheers Franky b.
|
|
|
|
Post by marlon on Jul 1, 2008 7:38:34 GMT -5
I've got no real long term experience, but a mate and I found one in his grandfathers shed around a year ago. Changed the oil, disconected the battery, put a new spark plug in and it kicked 2nd time. First time it'd run since 1980 something. Went like absolute stink...  By no means a real-world comparison, and the gearing is completely different etc, but it felt like it pulled a lot more than the SR500 I rode. |
|
|
|
Post by davedunsboro on Jul 1, 2008 8:06:16 GMT -5
I agree with Frank's comment about the XT550 , they were rubbish (a bit like the XL500s)Which was a bit wrong seein as honda only really built 4 stroke engines until the elsinore came out !The new stuff is all good though so we shouldn't dwell in the past(& did somebody mention the CX500 again!)G Mann will have to put that to rest? (Geez I laughed when I saw those flogging a dead horse symbols on my screen! We've got to see more of that? I just got a XL250 for a carton of beer (wish I could get a XT250 for the same price) Cheers Dave.
|
|
|
|
Post by pvlietstra on Jul 1, 2008 8:18:01 GMT -5
Since Yamaha had very few 4 strokes when they designed the XT500, they did their homework and built a robust machine. :)Honda were rolling out machines at a high rate and submitted the XL to the market with a badly designed small end bearing and cam shaft bearings. They are OK with normal use but wear rapidly with hard use.  |
|
|
|
Post by strick on Jul 1, 2008 10:09:15 GMT -5
Of course I DO realize this is a Yamaha forum, but the Honda had a very balanced nearly vibration free motor (unlike my SR). I will add quickly of all the desert racing I have done and all the dirt bikes I have owned, I think I was the fastest on a very modified WR426 Yamaha. I raced KTM's for years until I experienced this Yamaha.
Back to the XL I have a '78 XL250s and the bike is a kick to ride. I have been using it as a commuter 3 days a week until my SR500 is done (hopefully tomorrow-headlight and turn signal install). The XL is nearly vibration free. The forks are not as robust, and the frame design is no-where near the quality of Yamaha. The XL does seem to have more travel than the '80 XT500 I own (I do not ride-project). The 23" front wheel does not bother me at all, but forget about flat tracking it!
What I have found over the years is there is a bike out there that will fit every individual best, that is probably why I am brand neutral. I just hope someday I will find the perfect dirt bike AND the perfect street bike. Everytime I think I have technology changes and I have to have the next best one!
If you guys ever get a chance to ride a XL - DO IT! I think you will be surprised how smooth that motor is.
|
|
|
|
Post by colinjay on Jul 1, 2008 17:43:33 GMT -5
I have owned both XL250 and 500's and ridden a few more of them along with a variety of XT/TT 500s. I also worked for both a Yamaha and a Honda dealership when the bike were new.
The XL/XR500 Hondas were very good bikes, they were generally lighter and handles better in the dirt than the XT/TT500 Yamaha.
The suposed mechanical faults (cams wearing out, etc)I found were not that common, and were mainly due to poor/hard treatment and/or lack of maintenance. If you didn't do regular oil changes (no replaceable oil filter) you could have problem, plus even though they engine held 2 ltr of oil the engines tended to run hot and break the oil down quicker than the XT/TT500 (I have also seen the XT/TT with very similar cam waer problems). The biggest problem was that when a XL/XR500 did do its topend in, it destroryed the cambearing surfaces in the head, where a XT/TT500 you just need to replace the ball bearings. We used to get the XL/XR heads line bored and have bronze bushes made up to recondition the heads.
The only other problem with the XL/XR engines was the joint between the head and rocker cover. on some bikes it was almost impossible to stop oil leaks from this joint. I can remember one bike were we tried every casket compound/sealant and even heli coiled ever thread in the head to try and stop the oil leak. We were never 100% sucessful, with the leak coming back every couple of months.
I still have a soft spot for the XL500RC, my brother owned one and it was the only bike that I could keep up on the back wheel for any length of time, I think my longest wheelie on it was about 400 - 500 metres, on an XT/TT500 I could barely manage 100 metres.
I have only resently (2 years ago) sold my offroad sidecar that was built on a XL250 chassis and fitted with a modified XL500 engine. On one trip, I roade 5000km through from Darwin down to Finke in the NT and back via Ayres Rock etc in 9 days. I never had a single problem with the engine in this bike in the 22 years that I owned it. I sold the 500 engine to a guy I knew for a road racer he was building and refitted the 250 engine before selling the bike in solo trim.
CJ
|
|
|
|
Post by wotavidone on Jul 1, 2008 19:35:34 GMT -5
Did they start with a single exhaust port head? I reckon on that vintage flat tracker website vft.org, I sometimes see 500 honda engined flattrackers for sale, and some of them look to be single port heads. I reckon they are a cool looking engine.
Perhaps Col can help with model designations? SL, XL, XR - what's the diff Colin.
Last year the local bike shop had a completely original silver '81 model for sale for $1200. I reckon the speedo said about 24,000 km. Registerable and rideable as is.
Still kicking myself for being too Yamaha snobbish to buy it.
Mick
|
|
|
|
Post by colinjay on Jul 1, 2008 21:43:38 GMT -5
All the XL, XR and FT 500's from the 78 thru 82(?) had twin exhaust ports. The XL, XR and RS250's from the same period also had twin exhaust ports. The earlier XL 250 and XL350s from 1972 thru to 1977 had single exhaust ports.
In the early day the SL designation was used for the trail bikes and CL was used for street scramblers (more road orientated but fitted with hi pipes). in 1972 (?) Honda change the trail bike designation to XL and late in the 70s (about 1978) introduced the XR designation for their enduro bikes, which were basically a stripped down XL with slightly better suspension and a bit more power.
The RS250 was a great little bike, basically a street version of the 1978 XL/XR250. I know a few people who fitted XL/XR500 engines into the RS frames during the 80's and these were brilliant bikes. Like the XL and XR's the engine was a straight swap, just used the 500 head steady in the 250 frame.
Some time in the 1980's Honda reintroduced the SL designation on a more street orientated version of the then current XL250.
CJ
|
|
|
|
Post by milkman on Jul 2, 2008 1:20:10 GMT -5
Nice pic Marlon, the smile says it all - was that before you went and played "On Any Sunday" around the local swing set without a helmet?
Thats interesting about the engine reliablity issues - good point about Honda spitting out another thumper, while Yamaha were more careful with their first attempt.
The Honda thumpers I've owned/ridden have been great engines - the mighty CT110 takes a hiding!
So we're all agreed then that if a good deal on an XL250 or 500 comes one way, then it should be snapped up? ;D
Or should I stop reading VMX so my desire for an old dirt bike dies down a little?
|
|
|
|
Post by marlon on Jul 2, 2008 2:23:49 GMT -5
That was before my accident!
Very interesting to read about the older Hondas for a change. Like I said, I had limited experience with the XL i rode for a while, but it certainly didn't feel like it vibrated all that much.
Milkman, why don't you flat track a CT110? A mate and I were going to start a postie-based bikie gang, "Going Postal". Sadly never got around to it. He had even drawn up plans for a massive sissy bar with the Auspost "P" at the top that acted as a stoplight. Genius.
|
|
|
|
Post by milkman on Jul 2, 2008 5:54:09 GMT -5
was that idea just after your "no helmet" accident Marlon?
|
|
|
|
Post by colinjay on Jul 2, 2008 6:44:08 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with VMX mag Milkman, I have every copy and have almost read the print off the pages. Heres a pic of my XL250/500 sidecar from 1987  Along with the sidecar, I made the leading link forks, the fuel tank and fitted the mag wheels from my SR because it had a habit of breaking spokes due to the cornering loads. The disc breaks also was a big help stopping it, although they didn't stop me going over an embankment between Bathurst and Lithgow in Aug 1987 and breaking my leg. Another pic of the outfit from a few years earlier (85 I think) when it still had the 250 engine (bored too 305cc and fitted with an XR camshaft). This shot was taken just before heading off for a local enduro where I rode the AG175 to 2nd place in the under 200cc class. I had given up serious cometition riding and used to ride the AG in the local events just for fun and to piss off the hot-shot riders who I could still beat even on the AG.  CJ |
|
|
|
Post by milkman on Jul 2, 2008 23:38:16 GMT -5
Thats brilliant - carrying a spare motorbike on your 300cc bike.
I'm a big fan of the old yam AG models - was looking at a good AG175 the other day, but sensibility got the better of me.
Bushpig Sidecars- nice name, but I think i attract enough bushpigs as it is, without advertising on my tank
|
|
|
|
Post by caferacercarl on Jul 3, 2008 3:16:20 GMT -5
But once you hotted up the 500, the gearbox would explode, I could write a whole page on 500 honda engine faults, some of which have been covered here, stick to the yammy's on this topic of early thumpers, they to have their faults BUT, no where near as many AND, the bottom end and clutch of a truck basically. I refuse to hot up 500 honda's for racing as it would only end in tears, Yamaha have a different philoshophy, its interesting comparing the construction of nearly every bike made when you see them stripped down and there in lies the reason I still love 500 yamaha engines, 30 years later.
|
|
