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Post by wizz954 on Jul 4, 2006 2:26:18 GMT -5
The handling on my recently prepped for racing SR500 needs some serious attention. The front forks are standard and running 20W oil filled to achieve 130mm air gap on top of the oil (approx 210ml) with 5mm worth of 1/2 in washers to up the preload. The rear shocks are Koni Dial-a-ride 7610-1303 spring 229.
On damping setting 4 (max) the rear is damped but still a little lively and also the bike seems to steer from the rear, with the back of the bike tipping into corners, rather than the front. The front is soft and squidgy with lots of dive under brakes and then the transition from braking to power out makes the front wheel tuck under on slower corners like Turn 9 at Eastern Creek.
Anyone out there know of a good race setup? I'm thinking gold valves and stiffer springs for the front forks and building some new Koni Dial-a-rides to a new specification. I would prefer adjustable suspension provided it is eligible for Forgotten Era.
I've been told to go gas/oil shocks like YSS and Wilbur but these are really expensive.
Appreciate any ideas if anyone has been down this road before. ;D
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 4, 2006 3:24:25 GMT -5
Hi,
I'll also be interested in the answer to this qn.
On the new SR I'm building I have fitted '99 R6 front forks in Franks triple clamps and I intend to use either White Power, Ohlins or Wilbers rear shocks with adjustable length and with high and low speed damping adjustment. Oh yes and an adjustable steering damper. None of this is much use for the racing period you are in.
You could ask the advice of Geoff at Ikon, he may have some ideas..especially for the shocks. I have Koni's on the back of my Honda racer and they work very well. He has just made some 'custom' shocks for a friends of mine in Japan...my friend is very happy so far.
My advice would be to ensure that the front and rear go down at about the same rate when you push down on the seat...sometimes hard to judge when the suspension is set fairly hard for racing.
Look in some of the books that are available for racing suspension setting tips. Books such as "The Racing Motorcycle", Sportbike Performance Handbook etc... there are several good books around.
SR
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 4, 2006 4:16:55 GMT -5
I've been talking to Geoff of Ikon by email. I'm quite keen on Dial-a-ride for the rebound adjustment which is essential for setting up on different racetracks, but the exact specification would be partly guesswork.
I'm guessing that 330mm length would help out with the steering but adjustable ride height would make this less of a gamble. Compression and rebound damping would be ideal, but I'm not sure on legality of the Wilbers and YSS shocks for Forgotten Era and they are expensive so I'd need to be really sure about it.
Question is how much better would the gas/oil shocks be compared to custom built Koni/Ikon Dial-a-rides? For the extra money, I could do the front forks...
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 4, 2006 4:35:36 GMT -5
Take a look at the SR racer in the Aus SR clubs pics...I think that the club gave him $500 towards that bike...hmmm...not sure what class it is raced in though, but look at the Ohlins rear shocks...
Are you a member of the club at all? You could e-mail Paul and get the rider's address...ask him what class he rides in...
SR
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Post by pablosrfivehundred on Jul 4, 2006 10:51:55 GMT -5
hey stew, got any pics of your set up, it sounds awsome.
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 4, 2006 20:59:58 GMT -5
Stew,
I'm not a member of the SR club yet, I emailed last week to see if I can join. I couldn't find the pic on the web site, but Ohlins are worth around $2000 so I don't think this is the go!
Most people are recommending the gold valve emulators so I think I will take the plunge and go for those with a heavier fork spring 0.8kg for my 72kg rider weight.
I have researched the Koni/Ikon specifications of all the shocks I have tried so far and worked out what is going on. I have come up with a specification that I think works as I have tried several and there is a setup I tried on a mate's SR500 at Wakefield Park last November and it worked really well. The spec of his shock makes sense in the light of what I have found with the shocks I have been using.
1) Standard SR500 specification is 76 1472 with 214 spring. 315mm free length, 84-160lb/in spring. These shocks have no damping adjustment and probably need rebuilding.
2) Koni Dial-a-rides 7610-1303 (this part number is not listed) 229 spring. 318mm free length, 84-120lb/in spring. These felt slightly underdamped and had the rear end steering effect, so maybe too short.
3) Koni Dial-a-rides 7610-1418 231 spring. 330mm free length, 95-174lb/in spring
Option 3 is the one I ran at Wakefield Park and felt really good, I didn't get the rear end steering feel and really didn't notice the shocks at all which means they must have simply worked. The price is $420+GST and a fraction of the price of the YSS, Wilber and Ohlins options. This is what I will get built and I'll let you all know how they work out.
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 5, 2006 6:51:51 GMT -5
Excellent, let me know how you get on, especially with the setup on the front end. I'd be intersted in the gold valves and their usefulness...
The other bike of mine I was talking about is very much a work in progress, and I don't really want to place any pics of it around at the moment. There's a long way to go with it yet...sorry about that. When it's ready I'll place pics of it here.
The pic of the racer is on the Aus SR site and it is an orange bike. The pic is from the rear...more or less.
I'll see if I can get a link...
SR
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 5, 2006 6:54:32 GMT -5
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 5, 2006 6:56:38 GMT -5
Hmm, try again with the link, otherwisw copy the whole thing and place it into the address box... www.sr500club.org/Andy'sClassics05.jpg SR |
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 6, 2006 5:53:33 GMT -5
Nice looking shocks with piggy back reservoir too. Swingarm looks good, not much standard gear there. I was thinking I've almost finished spending, but maybe I'm delusional !
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 30, 2006 8:17:16 GMT -5
After much thinking, I ended up with Ikon fork springs and Gold Valve emulators. Running 20W oil, the damping is pretty stiff and I will probably go down to 15W but I will test it out at Eastern Creek on Aug 7 and change the oil while I am there if I have to.
Rear end is Ikon 1418 with a 95-174lb spring but the spring was a different part number to the one I mentioned previously, something strange about my mate's setup, the part numbers don't match the specification.
Both ends feel nice and firm and well damped when bouncing up and down in the garage, so a huge improvement over the old setup. Track testing will tell all though... and I will let you know how it goes.
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Post by yamatopdog on Jul 30, 2006 15:06:19 GMT -5
Could anyone give a source for the gold valves, Have concidered them but my normal sources do'nt carry them and heav'nt looked to hard on the outside.Thanks Bob
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 31, 2006 7:23:03 GMT -5
Gold Valve emulators are made by RaceTech and you can buy online. www.racetech.com |
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Post by StewRoss on Jul 31, 2006 7:39:06 GMT -5
Mate,
Looking forward to hearing how you go with this. What IKON fork springs did you use??
I should get on to them to see what's available...as mine is a road bike they'd probably need to be a little softer than yours....not too light though, I still like the bike to be a bit 'sporty' in its handling...
How much modification to fit the gold valves?
My R6-forked bike is going to be a bit of fun to set up...when I eventually get to it...
SR
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Post by wizz954 on Jul 31, 2006 23:13:27 GMT -5
The fork springs are 500-181 and are longer than stock. They stick out the top of the fork tubes and so you don't need spacers. I'm only a weedy 72kgs so my static sag is 24mm with these springs but judging by the compression when I pump the forks, I'd say you only get 100mm of travel with these springs compared to 150mm stock. Talk to Geoff at Ikon, he's got 2 options for the SR500 so maybe there is a softer one for the road. The Gold Valve emulators were quite easy to fit as long as you have a pillar drill. I won't go into too much detail as you probably know how to dismantle the forks. You need to take out the damper rod and you will find 4 holes in the damper rod to control the compression damping. You need to drill out the 4 holes to 8mm diameter and drill an extra 2 holes of 8mm diameter. Deburr the edges etc and that't it from an engineering perspective. Re-assemble the damper rod and then drop the gold valve emulator into the fork tube and it sits on top of the damper rod, then put the spring on top. You need to run whatever weight oil you normally run and this determines rebound damping, then the compression damping is controlled by the amount of preload on the gold valve emulator, more preload = more compression damping. If you ever need to change the compression damping you can do it with the forks in the bike. You simply take out the spring and use a magnetic pickup tool to grab the gold valve emulator and do the adjustments and pop it back in. It's amazingly simply but the fork action is beautiful now! You can actually feel the damping at work in both directions. Now it's all down to track testing to set it all up and see whether it was all worth it!  R6 forks would still be much better than the modified standard forks though  |
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