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Post by videovoide on Jun 18, 2008 22:12:54 GMT -5
I bought an SR almost 3 years ago - what a great decision. The bike is so fun to ride. I just moved out to northern California from NYC and decided to reward the bike and me with new tires. I had been running the old style tires and knew it was time for the BT45s. I was going to order the tires and tubes online and have a shot at putting them on but decided to let the local shop take care of it. It turned out to be a huge mistake. First they insisted that the bike did not need inner tubes. I insisted that they did but agreed to ride the bike for a few days and if they lost pressure I'd come back in for tubes. The service manager said "It should be fine." not a confidence inspiring remark. At this point I was all paid up and ready to get on the bike when the service guy adds - "Oh and by the way I should tell you that the rear tire is actually a front tire, but it shouldn't matter. It's of the same compound as a rear tire." Now there was no way I was leaving the shop. We marched up stairs to the parts counter and got to the bottom of the problem and reordered a rear tire. So here I am wishing I told the manager to put my old cheng shin tires back on the bike and to give me my money back and go else where. I already felt I was paying too much. I just might be the first phone call they get tomorrow morning. What would you guys do? Should I give them a second chance? Thanks for reading this long entry.
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Post by solo2racr on Jun 18, 2008 23:05:20 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't. I would get it all straighten out to my satisfaction and never go back. It would be hard to bale out at this point without having to pay something.
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Post by stevec5000 on Jun 19, 2008 1:17:57 GMT -5
That's why you should always do all the work on the bike yourself instead of letting the 19 year old highschool drop outs at the dealer do it, you'll know it's done right and not over pay. They were right about not using tubes though. You shouldn't use tubes in tubeless tires since they are too dangerous to run on the highway. If you get a puncture with a tube it will deflate immediately, something you don't want if you are in the middle of a curve or the high speed lane of the freeway. Then, if you didn't wreck, you will be stranded because there's no easy way to patch it to get home. Tubeless tires, on the other hand will leak down slowly or maybe not at all unless the puncturing object is pulled out. I don't know how it is where you live but around here we live in one of the fastest growing areas of the country and there is construction everywhere, which means lots of nails, drywall screws and other objects on the highway so there is always the chance of getting a puncture every time I go out. I wouldn't want to have a tube go flat and strand me 50 miles out in the desert with no way home.
You can actually use front tires on the rear but it's not recommended because they are more rounded while actual rear tires have a flatter profile so they will wear out quickly in the center of the tire so it's best to put the proper kind of tires on front and rear.
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Post by solo2racr on Jun 19, 2008 2:18:58 GMT -5
You can actually use front tires on the rear but it's not recommended because they are more rounded while actual rear tires have a flatter profile so they will wear out quickly in the center of the tire so it's best to put the proper kind of tires on front and rear. While what Steve is saying about rear tires being flatter than the fronts is true, nothing is free. The increase in contact area straight up is better and will give longer mileage. The down side is that there is less contact area while in a corner, compared to a more triangulated tire. I personally would rather trade off the wear rate to feel more stable and have more grip in a corner. Back when I first started riding, the hot tire was Dunlop's K91. Front and rear. Made no difference what end of the bike they were mounted and they were VERY triangulated. Later on, I ran Yokohama's for the very same reason. I had tried Metzlers and found they where to round. Same with the old 591 series from Dunlop. Running a front tire on the rear is perfectly fine as long as the direction arrow is reversed. On some bikes I PREFER this setup as the rear feels more stable in a corner. But, like Steve said, the trade off is a higher wear rate. One other thing is that of the 10's of thousands of mile I have put on bikes with tires that required tubes, I only had one flat in that time. It was a slow leak and was able to ride about 5 more minutes after feeling it go soft to when it was unrideable. |
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Post by StewRoss on Jun 19, 2008 2:20:49 GMT -5
The SR wheels are not designed to run tubeless tyres. They are designed to run tubes...however you can fit them and they will seal. I have always run tubes in these wheels with no problem ever, well for the last 28 years anyway....and I run BT45s with tubes on the SRs and have done for years now with no problems. The only problems that I have had with tyres on SRs was when I went to Michelin Macadams at one stage and Dunlops on another occasion (still with tubes)...the problems that I had stemmed only with the level of grip, or lack of it, especially in the wet...these other tyres didn't wear much to my dismay, and I ended up taking them off just to get rid of them. I hear what you're saying about punctures and I agree...to a certain extent. But the rims aren't designed for the tyres. I had a quick look on the net on this subject and found this comment on BMW rims...not relevent in a way, but read the explanation on the rim styles...this article is certainly not the definitive comment on the matter either...there are probably others as well... pweb.jps.net/~snowbum/section6.htmYou are of course free to do what you like, and I feel none of this will stop the discussions on this matter. But have a read and make your own decision. I still choose to do what Yamaha intended and run tubes... As far as a shop doing their own thing and mucking you around, get it sorted this time and don't go back if you're not satisfied... SR  |
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Post by aero on Jun 19, 2008 5:17:21 GMT -5
I was an approved vehicle (motorcycle with or with side car) tester, In the UK its called the MOT which is required once a year on all vehicles over 3 years old. No doubt in other parts of the world there will be a similiar inspection by an officially appointed person required.
Putting tubless tyres on tube type rims requires the use of a tube. Full stop. This is what both tyre and wheel manufacturers will tell you. In the UK the bike will fail the MOT if you have not used a tube with a RIM that requires one. It will be cast on to the rim either 'tubetype' or 'tubless' Have an accident on the highway that can be put down to tyre failure and they'll throw the book at you. In the UK faulty tyres carry a very stiff penalty.
The shape of the rims are different and while it may seal it is sealing against a profile not designed to be the primary seal. Also bare in mind that the rim widths on the SR are way below what the tyre manufacturer recommend, so the correct sized tyre is 'pinched' on standard rims.
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Post by jdbrees on Jun 19, 2008 6:16:39 GMT -5
I've seen the cast wheels on Sr's in both flavors - tube and tubeless.
It's my understanding that the earlier models had tube types and the later models went to tubeless. The wheels designed for tubeless tires are clearly marked as such on the one of the spokes. If you don't see the word tubeless, definitely get tubes! Heed Aero's post.
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Post by G Man on Jun 19, 2008 7:33:56 GMT -5
... First they insisted that the bike did not need inner tubes. I insisted that they did but agreed to ride the bike for a few days and if they lost pressure I'd come back in for tubes... If they did lose pressure, you may not have been physically able to go back! Get on the phone first thing this morning. Tell them as they are already going to re-do the rear, get some tubes on order and insist they install them as well. This is a must do. There is no grey area here irregardless of what someone on here continues to say... Here is the last thread on this issue. sr500forum.proboards38.com/index.cgi?board=Suspension&action=display&thread=761G Man |
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Post by stevec5000 on Jun 19, 2008 9:26:21 GMT -5
>>Putting tubless tyres on tube type rims requires the use of a tube. Full stop. This is what both tyre and wheel manufacturers will tell you. In the UK the bike will fail the MOT if you have not used a tube with a RIM that requires one. It will be cast on to the rim either 'tubetype' or 'tubless' Have an accident on the highway that can be put down to tyre failure and they'll throw the book at you. In the UK faulty tyres carry a very stiff penalty.
Fortunately we don't have such foolishness such as MOT here in the Arizona, just the yearly emissions test that's a real PITA.
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Post by videovoide on Jun 19, 2008 11:27:48 GMT -5
Thank You for the input. I decided to have the shop finish what they were doing, but with tubes, and with a rear tire on the rear wheel.
My bike has cast wheels. Have any of you increased the tire width?
And for all of you that change your own tires -- How difficult is it?
Thanks Gang.
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Post by stevec5000 on Jun 19, 2008 11:50:17 GMT -5
You can't increase the tire width easily without a lot of cutting and welding and changing the wheels but you wouldn't want to since it will mess us the handling and the tires are already quite large for a bike that size.
They are pretty easy to change as long as you don't use tubes.
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Post by solo2racr on Jun 19, 2008 12:44:52 GMT -5
Pretty easy with tubes also. As long as your paying attention to what you are doing. Which you should be anyway. ;D Some dishwashing soap mixed in some water, put into a spray bottle will help alot. So will setting it on something like a milk crate or a 30gal drum. Be thankful your not changing a 5.10x17 knobby with 2 rim locks!!  |
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Post by aero on Jun 20, 2008 3:45:52 GMT -5
A 130/80 x18 is about as large as you can go. With 520 chain you SHOULD end up with 1/2" (6mm) clearence on the chain. However this tyre won't clear the opposite side of the swing arm without some cutting and welding of the gusset on the swing arm (possibly). If its a disc brake model you have a 120/80x18 is the limit without moving the torque arm mounting. Even then you'll need a torque arm bolt head that will clear the tyre. And you'll need some rims that will take the larger tyres.....  |
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Post by stevec5000 on Jun 23, 2008 8:03:16 GMT -5
Pretty easy with tubes also. As long as your paying attention to what you are doing. Which you should be anyway. ;D Some dishwashing soap mixed in some water, put into a spray bottle will help alot. So will setting it on something like a milk crate or a 30gal drum. Be thankful your not changing a 5.10x17 knobby with 2 rim locks!! I wouldn't use tubes with the alloy wheels, like I said, too dangerous on the highway. If he uses spoked wheels I guess he has no choice which is why I would never use spoked wheels! |
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sven
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by sven on Jun 23, 2008 10:06:32 GMT -5
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