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Apr 30, 2008 20:16:00 GMT -5
Post by wotavidone on Apr 30, 2008 20:16:00 GMT -5
The thread I was referring to has the same diagram aero has put in this thread. I think he sums it up about right - it looks to me like two of the coils charge the capacitor and the other two coils and the resisitive divider network inside the box combine to trigger the SCR gate to discharge the capacitor. My take is that the faster the revs, the sooner the voltage rises to trigger the SCR, the sooner the capacitor is discharged and the sooner the coil fires a spark.
So no Aero, you ain't talking bollocks.
The thread is called "Need some details on the ignition system" and was started by buicknick, who is a legend, because he is well on the way to reverse engineering a CDI, he's built the circuit and actually got spark. When he's done, he might grace us with a final design complete with values/part numbers of all components involved. I reckon he's got himself a great little money spinner here - he could make up kits of parts and sell them to us.
Mick
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Apr 30, 2008 23:30:04 GMT -5
Post by mono500 on Apr 30, 2008 23:30:04 GMT -5
So, the "ignition advancer" as refered in the manual is the horseshoe part, if I understand well.
It contols the advance. How to test the horshoe part ?
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Post by caferacercarl on May 1, 2008 0:26:06 GMT -5
That is the wiring diagram for the internals of the CDI box, and he and I are right....aero just descibed it in a lengthier way, first the low speed circuit works from kick speed to about 1,500 then the normal winding and then the little one in the middle [ horseshoe one] which apparently is lined up with a magnet placed specially inside the middle of the flywheel,timed to the motor crank position, so, you can end up with no advance if the magnet moves around and won't trace it untill you try another flywheel!!! you could say I've seen a few things in 29 years of being a bike mechanic and fixing these since day one...
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Post by waynegum on May 1, 2008 4:14:02 GMT -5
The SR500 ignition does advance although it does advance at a fairly rapid rate and stays advanced so when you are checking the timing mark on the rotor with the engine going it will seem that it will pretty well reached its full advance. On running the engine it will be fairly obvious if the engine is advanced sufficiently as it will rev right out compared to a retarded engine where it will load itself on acceleration and run the exhaust very hot. Reading some of the comments on the forum I think there may be a little confusion as to what is doing what. Your stator will have a charge coil that charges the capacitor (brown wire and red wire) then it has another triggering coil (white/red trace, white/green trace). These are the two coils that make your ignition work. The other wires coming from the stator are purely battery charging wires and have no bearing on the operation of the ign unit itself. In fact this system does not even require a battery to run it. Hope this helps a little.
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Post by aero on May 1, 2008 4:53:03 GMT -5
The diagram was first posted on here and I just reposted it. If you save it to your machince and veiw it with a photviewer you can see it in a larger size.
Electronic diagrams and the symbols used are fairly international, I'm sure you can find a web site that will translate the words that aren't obvious.
Thanks for the input Wayne, I'd noticed this was a self contained system, just trying to get my head round what was happening inside it. I'm assuming you're the waynegum who makes the replacemnet ignitions? I just ordered one to see what difference it makes to the SR
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Post by mono500 on May 1, 2008 7:23:18 GMT -5
Wayne is helping me out of the site to clarify the problem I was refering about the CDI replacement.
To be followed.
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Post by stevec5000 on May 1, 2008 9:19:53 GMT -5
>The diagram was first posted on here and I just reposted it. If you save it to your machince and veiw it with a photviewer you can see it in a larger size.
The diagram is so small it gets too jaggy to read when it's blown up. Can someone post a larger version?
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Post by caferacercarl on May 4, 2008 2:42:39 GMT -5
I give up, will someone just believe in guy's like aero and wotavidone, who obviously can understand solid state circuitry AND read a circuit diagram, the SR is the ONLY bike to come out of japan with a CDI magneto system, 99% use transistor assisted units with the advance built into the box, I could clog up pages with SR electrical data that I have collected over 29 years but when guys get it right here in the forum can you just believe them? a good SR sits on the 'F" mark at idle and shoots up to full advance by 3,000 , 2 valve engines advance quick,4 valve engines a lot more progressively, an engine with no advance will hit redline whilst still, but, put load on it and it won't make power.we had this happen on the Dyno to a bike we built up from parts, changed the box first,nothing, changed the stator and bingo...double the rear wheel power.
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Post by aero on May 4, 2008 5:01:51 GMT -5
I'm a mere apprentice, I've only been doing it 22 years. Started out in a dealership, then move over to aircraft after seven years. Most of my bike experience has come from 70/80's bikes.
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Jun 10, 2008 21:32:53 GMT -5
Post by mono500 on Jun 10, 2008 21:32:53 GMT -5
Hello. I open this thread originally because I did not have advance. Wayne from New Zealand ( www.erd.co.nz ) send me a replacement since the first unit did not work. I received the second unit this June 10th. The second unique works and the motorcycle is able to go up in rpm. It maybe slow to deal with NZ but they are very serious and knowledgeable. So the cdi look like controling the advance. |
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Jun 10, 2008 22:44:45 GMT -5
Post by stevec5000 on Jun 10, 2008 22:44:45 GMT -5
Actually it depends on both parts, the stator and the CDI. They have to work together so it won't advance if one part fails.
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Jul 12, 2008 6:34:46 GMT -5
Post by aero on Jul 12, 2008 6:34:46 GMT -5
To summerise: The generator has several sets of coils. One set produces the charging power for the battery and has nothing what so ever to do with the CDi.
The windings that exit the generator on red and brown wires charge the capapictor in the CDi box and hence provide the power for the ignition.
The windings that exit on the white wires with a red tracer and a green tracer give the trigger pulse.
The CDi box itself contains a network of resistors that cause the spark to advance as the engine RPM increases. You need to understand some fundimental electronic theory to see how it does that, but it is a very simple trick.
Sorry to bump up an old thread, but this is one of my many on going projects, finding a replacement iginition. I tried to get a Hyperpak from ERD, but the one they sent didn't work and the whole deal fell apart, so I'm back to making my own.
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Jul 20, 2008 2:40:41 GMT -5
Post by caferacercarl on Jul 20, 2008 2:40:41 GMT -5
betta bikes in South Aus do a modified XT250 2 valve ignition, I modded my own one for my HL 500 [and is still on it] could be a cheap option, your clued up enough to make it work aero, I wish people would believe what guy's like you and stew and stevesc and sjef etc write, we have all been there, done that so to speak.
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