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Post by hopwheels on Mar 14, 2007 19:17:59 GMT -5
Hey guys... I bought a mini gel battery (comparable to Portalac PE12V0.8) from an eBay seller (biebo) for my cafe bike. The cool thing is, that it fits in the under seat tray. The bad thing is that I let it sit too long (got it too early in my build) and now it won't hold a charge. My fault, so I'm not going to take it up with the seller, but I'm looking for a replacement. I found this one, so I don't have to reorder from Germany... www.staabbattery.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=staab&Product_Code=UB1208-V&Category_Code=sla-12and am wondering if you guys think it might work. I'm not happy with the way all the lights/signals work using the bat eliminator... so am trying this. Thanks!
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 14, 2007 19:55:57 GMT -5
Greetings from the worlds biggest producer of refined lead and lead battery alloys. A very good chance made the lead alloy in that there battery. The first question one must ask with VRLA or gel batteries is whether they can be charged to the higher voltages seen in automotive charging systems without damage. You will note on the spec sheet for this battery that the recommended charging final voltage for standby apps is only 13.5 volts, which is much less than your typical automotive charging voltage of around 14.2- 14.5 volts. However the spec sheets says that this particular battery likes 14.5 to 15.0V in cycle type operations. They mean operations where the battery cycles between partial discharge and full charge, not just fitting it to a motorcycle . If you make sure you are always drawing it down a bit, i.e. use your lights/brake lights/indicators a lot, the battery should not be over charged if your regulator is in good nick and properly installed. The other point, of course, is that VRLA lead alloys are a good money-spinner for my company. We get paid more for lead alloys than we do for pure lead, so my recommendation is that everyone who visits this site should go out and buy a VRLA battery, and change it every two years whether it needs it or not This will help me gainfully employed in the lead production industry for some tiome to come. Mick
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Post by hopwheels on Mar 14, 2007 20:00:45 GMT -5
Great info Mick! A perfect example of why I love this site! Just throw it out there, and you never know what you'll get! But ALWAYS good! I found the same battery for around $12 US plus shipping, so with that price, I'd be happpy to keep buyin' 'em! Take care man!
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 14, 2007 20:02:14 GMT -5
P.S> I still don't see how, since charging liberates Hydrogen, how these things could never need water, which is after all hydrogen dioxide. Maybe this is where the valve regulation bit comes in. Perhaps they keep the hydrogen hanging around in the battery, for later re-absorption, unlike normal lead acid batteries which vent to atmosphere? Anyone know? Mick
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Post by hopwheels on Mar 14, 2007 20:06:47 GMT -5
Hmmmm... scientific content... it makes my brain hurt PS: I'm assuming I would simply snip off that snap connector and add two bullet connectors and still run my inline fuse?
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 14, 2007 20:08:38 GMT -5
PPS. Note that the maximum charging current is very small - 0.24 Amps. You should charge this thing with a low current charger, such as one of those 2 watt solar panels they sell to put on your car dashboard to maintain the battery if you don't use the car for a while, to full voltage (say around 14 volts) before you install it. If you put it in half flat, your bike has a max charge of about 11 amps, which might fry the battery - buckle plates, boil your electrolyte out of the absorbent mat, etc. Won't be a problem if you are careful. Mick
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Post by hopwheels on Mar 14, 2007 20:15:25 GMT -5
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 14, 2007 22:27:34 GMT -5
Use the bullet connectors, female for the positive lead on the battery, male for the negative lead. Then there is less danger of the postive lead of the battery shorting to the frame if it comes apart. I reckon your old battery died from sitting on the shelf. They do sometimes specify a self discharge rate for these things.
Check your new battery when you get it. If its 13.5 volts or more its probably OK to put it straight in the bike, especially if you put the headlight on as soon as you have started the bike so most of the charge is being used to run the light. Then rev the bike gently until you just see the headlight get a little brighter. About then you should be starting to gently charge your battery. If it's only 12volts when you get it, give it a charge before you install it. I'm a tight-ass, so rather than buy a new charger, I'd hook up the 1 amp charger and turn it on for a few minutes at a time, then turn it off to let things cool for about double the time. I'd do that till I could measure 13.5 -14.0 volts on the thing, then I'd throw it in the bike.
Really, its no big deal. I just reckon if you put it in the bike half flat and then start the bike straight up and rev it up with no lights on, you run the risk of banging the entire output of the chargeing system into that very small battery, which would exceed the recommended charging current by quite a lot. Once the battery is charged - no further problem I reckon. If you don't have a multimeter, I reckon 20 bucks spent on a multi meter would be dollars better spent than buying a new charger.
Colinjay is an electrician, I think. He would add some value to this discussion I reckon. Mick
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Post by hopwheels on Mar 14, 2007 22:39:09 GMT -5
Thanks Mick... sounds good. Got a multimeter, so should be good to go.
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 14, 2007 23:45:45 GMT -5
Just make d**n sure you don't get any battery acid on that sweet sweet paint job.
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Post by flyereddie on Mar 20, 2007 6:17:47 GMT -5
hi guys you could try this trick we use on some of our industrial equiptment . Put a say 20 amp diode in the positive wire of the batt with the cathode faceing the positive terminal now discharge current from the batt to lights etc come through the diode, now to charge the batt you put a 6 volt 10 watt light globe across the diode, charge current goes through the lamp, if you need a higher current you use a higher wattage lamp less current smaller wattage you can use a 12 volt lamp dosnt really matter just adjust to suite the battery have fun
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Post by wotavidone on Mar 20, 2007 16:19:40 GMT -5
Good idea. That's why I like this forum. I could be wrong, and pardon the snobbery, but it seems to me its the better class of thinking biker who rides an SR500 No limit imposed on current out of the battery, and limited current into the battery. That should do it nicely. As you say you could adjust your lamp according to current required. Does the bulb actually light up? That'd make a nifty confirmation that the battery is being charged. Mick
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Post by hopwheels on Mar 20, 2007 17:00:00 GMT -5
Hey guys... that is some good stuff. Batt came nearly full charge. Installed, and runnin' right!
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Post by flyereddie on Mar 20, 2007 17:31:22 GMT -5
we use a lamp to charge our battries is some equipment we manufacturer the lamp glows while the bat charges once it stops its just about charged, by the way lamps are almost a constant current device as the current goes up they glow brighter and their resistance increases and keeps the current almost constant
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Post by flyereddie on Mar 20, 2007 17:40:38 GMT -5
i think i got my anode and cathode mixed up also the "band end "of the diode faces away from the positive terminal of the battery
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